SONIC EATS RINGS

Archived Boards => Ringo Starr Wavedashes Board => Topic started by: drak on March 15, 2008, 07:39:58 PM

Title: So hey, tournament?
Post by: drak on March 15, 2008, 07:39:58 PM
The game's been out for around a week now, and people are getting used to the mechanics and their characters... so hey, do you think it's a time for a tournament yet? :[]
I'm too lazy to actually organize anything, but I'm just throwing the idea out there to see how many people would actually participate, when we'd hold it, and most important, a set of rules. Items, no items? Some items? Final Smashes on/off? Assist Trophies? :[] Also we should decide on stock, time, coin, stock with timer, etc... that kinda fun stuff.

So... any ideas, folks?
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Donnyku on March 15, 2008, 07:46:40 PM
I'm down with 2:00 Time or 3 Stock, all items but Banana Peel and Sandbag
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 15, 2008, 07:49:50 PM
Joshi is down for whatever set of rules is desired, and probably any time that's not between 11 am and 5 pm EST (As those are the times he tends to work).  He would prefer most items except maybe ATs, and while he likes Smash Balls on he admits it will probably be better to turn them off.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SpadeRunner|Faker on March 15, 2008, 08:19:05 PM
Yes Please, yes, ...please
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: drak on March 15, 2008, 08:33:22 PM
I guess I'd also like to add that reasoning for certain items being turned off would be good too. If it's a reason like "I DO NOT LIKE BANANA PEELS BECAUSE I SLIP ON THEM!" and you're the only one who complains, then... y'know, deal with it, everyone slips on banana peels. However, if it's something that many people agree should be turned off (like I kind of hope ATs and Smash Balls will be ;P) then yeah that's probably good.

ANYWAY I'm up for most any time this coming week except Thursday from 6:30 to 10:00 EST.
As for items I myself would prefer be turned off, I vote ATs and Smash Balls. ATs because most of them last far too long and are a little too MIGHTY for my tastes XD Other than that, I think most of the other itams are fine. Oh, and probably on Low frequency, as well.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 15, 2008, 08:41:16 PM
We should clearly turn off every item but Sandbag.

Because Sandbag is amazing.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 15, 2008, 08:42:25 PM
Also, suggesting the winner fights Hol as a final boss fight.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: drak on March 15, 2008, 08:43:29 PM
Also, suggesting the winner fights Hol as a final boss fight.
I second this
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Tenniru on March 15, 2008, 08:47:41 PM
It's spring break, so doing this any time this week is good for me.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Squiggles the Chao on March 15, 2008, 09:22:05 PM
As fun as final smashes are, they are unbalanced, so I would recommend turning them off. Similarly, levels in which the camera scrolls, like the waterfall level, aren't really tourney-friendly.

Personally, I would prefer 5 Stock, no time limit. 3 Stock is just too short considering how fast Brawl plays.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Keith Hemari on March 15, 2008, 09:24:46 PM
Some time in the mid-to-late afternoon/evening EST would be good for me. 

Restrictions?   I (whatever number)th disabling Final Smash, but, other than that, it doesn't matter.

That is, if you don't mind having a beam sword chucked into your face from halfway across the stage.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SonKnuck on March 15, 2008, 09:30:50 PM
I'm definitely in! Just tell me when! Of course, some of you STILL need to add me to their friend's list!
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Artwood on March 15, 2008, 09:53:36 PM
Me and Rix are probably gonna be good as soon as we get our Wii back.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Donnyku on March 15, 2008, 10:22:47 PM
I'm fine with the rules listed so far, including Hol as Final Boss
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SoNick on March 16, 2008, 12:02:52 AM
FOX ONLY
NO ITEMS
FINAL DESTINATION



Seriously, though?
I agree with drak about the Assist Trophies being turned off; they kind of tend to last too long based on how long most of the Pokémon from the pokéballs last.

I'm undecided on the Smash Balls; I like how they can turn the game around if you're getting beat on, but at the same time some of the final smashes are pretty unbalanced... (Landmaster, Pit's Army...)

The banana peels I think should be enabled; they're a quick "minor distraction" item that's fun to use.

I usually disable the fan as my only use for it is as a projectile, but I won't be angry if nobody else wants it disabled.

This should go without saying, but the Star should absolutely be disabled; giving someone invincibility in a fighting game is far from fair. If this is a 1vs1 tournament (...I can't imagine how a 1vs1vs1vs1 tournament could work and still be fair), then we might want to disable the Heart as well; full healing is amusing to fight for with four combatants, but with only two it might be a little cheap.

And what does everyone else think about the hammers?
I keep them both on when I play, but the Golden Hammer seems kind of cheap, even if it is a rare item...

Five stock with no time limit is what I usually play, and it matches seem to be at just the right length to be fun without dragging on or ending abruptly.

I'd like items set to "Very High" as it gives me plenty of projectiles to toss at enemies, but I'm fine with anything else other than "No items."

Oh, and yeah, having Hol face the winner is a definite must. It can't be the first SSBB tournament otherwise!
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Chrispy on March 16, 2008, 12:19:29 AM
No watches. Those things backfire more than anything and make every one slow.

Smash Ball, yes.
AT's turn off.
3 stock 2:00.
I second most of what SoNick said other wise.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Bartman3010 on March 16, 2008, 01:51:50 AM
I'd say keep all that crap on. It really does work best on timed matches, since players can stay on the entire match (And gang up against the winning player if they have to)

Personally, if people can utilize certain characters at an unfair advantage (Like Diddy Kong littering the level with bananas and screwing with the other player) why take out what could be a possible trump card? The Dragoon is dodgable. I believe through air dodging and of course, running from the cursor.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 16, 2008, 01:55:35 AM
Gonna have to suggest no time limit because they suck, but I think 4 or even 3 stock might be better if it's only 1 on 1.  Hearts, stars, and horseshoes should absolutely be disabled (at least stars), and prolly tomatoes as well?  Watches MIGHT be a good idea to turn off, but I'm neutral on them.

Not sure how I feel about hammers.


There's no "Very High" setting any more, SoNick.  Just low, med, high, and off.  A lot of people dislike items on high, but low is.. too low, IMO.  I say medium is an obvious compromise.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: noeko on March 16, 2008, 04:00:03 AM
As far as items go, here's what I think, in order of imbalance caused (with notes on whether it's caused by the item itself or from a character-to-character balance basis IE one char gets more use out of it than another) from from most imbalanced to most acceptable and reasons why.

1) Item - THAT FUCKING FAN - Many characters can combo infinitely with no hope of recourse.  NO.  There is NO reason to have the fan on.  Ever.  EVER.

2) Character/Item - Smash Balls - Transformation Final Smashes last entirely too long.  If you catch someone at about 50% when you grab the smash ball, you can usually ring them out once, and have enough time to ring them out again even if they wait out the entire floating platform.  There's a significant imbalance between a character's ease of getting a smash ball and their power as well (hi ness/lucas.)

3)Item - Super Star - I think we need no comment here.  A character that can play a purely aggressive game with no fear of retaliation is a no-go.

4)Item - Clock - ZA WARUDO.  Toki wo tomare.  Then you walk toward them, grab them, throw them down, jump up and ring them out with an aerial.  (Samus, for example, down throw, hop up, back air, jump off the stage, down air)  Because while time slows down, overall momentum remains unchained.  A ringout is a ringout is a ringout is a ringout.  The chance of backfiring isn't really big enough to make you think twice about grabbing it and winning.

5)Item - Metal Box, Mushrooms, Lightning Bolt - Changes in size change the size of projectiles and explosives, change your knockout capability and your ability to knock people out.  They turn the tide far too much.  The Metal Box isn't quite as bad but it still pretty much makes you immune to ringouts until it expires.

6)Item - Hearts - The amount of time it takes to rack up 100 damage is enough to say this is pretty unfair.

7)Item - Assist Trophies/Pokeballs - Just grab 'em and use 'em.  They most often home in and their ring out potential and lastability for some of them is just insane.  If you could pick which assist trophies to leave on I'd say some of them were okay, but as it is.. Not really.  (You get the NINJA TWINS/LATIOS and you might be set for a win, OR  !!!!!!  you get the mayor/goldeen.)

8)Item - M Tomato - While not as bad as the Heart, this is still pretty bad.  Not to mention, if you get lucky enough to get two of them in a row, that's as good as getting one heart!

9)Character - Hammers - Stop!  Hammert-.. Erh.  They're kinda like the super star but instead of invincibility you just have an even better ringout!  Golden Hammers should be off, period, but hammers themselves are bad enough.  They give a significant advantage to fast characters since A: they can move around with it better and B: they can run away from other people who have it better.  Additional advantages given to ranged characters since they're the only ones who can really safely counter it and even ring out their opponent even after picking up the hammer.  EX1: Fox vs Ike - Ike will not be able to catch Fox if he gets the hammer.  Additionally, Ike will not be able to run away if Fox gets the hammer.  EX2-  Fighting Samus, grabbing the hammer is a DEATH WISH.  Hope you weren't planning on avoiding that short hopped charge shot.  ;)

10)Item - Cracker Launcher - Probably the only item here I am sort of on the fence about.  The item itself is incredibly powerful if your aim with it is fantastic, but it's only mediocre if it isn't.  It's safer to just leave it off.  (If you're good enough, you can easily juggle someone straight out of the top of the stagebox, often with enough shots left to do it again.)

11)Character - Exploding Crate - Fucks over anyone that might explode it by accident when it plops in front of one of their attacks that explodes it.  The item itself isn't very bad but it can be frustrating to have someone blast it as you're trying to recover and it's near the edge of the stage, blowing it up and sending you flying.



This list is getting pretty long, but I think that's pretty much it for the obnoxious stuff.  Moving onto items I'm mostly fine with when playing for fun, in no particular order.


Item - Deku Nut - It's kinda like a weaker, blockable stopwatch.  Not nearly as bad.

Item - Pitfall - Like an even weaker Deku Nut, because it reduces knockback.  Mostly acceptable.

Item - Home Run Bat - Definitely weaker than its Melee counterpart.  No way you'll ever home run ANYONE with this bat.  That aside, it's an incredible throwing item.

Item - Beam Sword - Beam sword is the new home run bat!  Incredble range, decent to pitch.  Some chars get more use out of it, but not to the exceptional degree of the Hammer.

Item - Fire Flower - The fan, but weaker and FAR easier to get out of.  It also runs out.  This one is okay by me.

Item - Warp Star - Predictable, dodgable, and leaves you vulnerable.  The only reason to turn this off is if you ABSOLUTELY HATE EVERY ITEM EVER MUST HAVE THEM OFF.

EXPLOSIVES

Item - Smart Bomb - The coolest, biggest, most over the top explosion to ever be seen in Melee.  This one's a keeper just because of how awesome it is!  It also doesn't ring out many heavies until much higher percentages, you can DI your way back to the stage pretty well.  Also hilarious when someone screws up and gets caught in it after they throw it, only to die.  Definitely does not cause a significant imbalance in use between characters.

Item - Motion Sensor Bomb - Annoying.  That's about it.  It's fine.

Item - Bobomb - Lost a lot of the explosive force it had in Melee, it's not nearly as bad now.



Item that MUST REMAIN IN AT ALL TIMES:

Sandbag - Seriously.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: 'Rixx on March 16, 2008, 04:17:18 AM
Drak, this is monumental! Surely we will all look back and remember you as the one who organized the first Brawl tournament.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: noeko on March 16, 2008, 04:38:56 AM
Most definitely !!
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SuitCase on March 16, 2008, 05:17:26 AM
I'm in, but no rules please.

What are those rules anyway? Do they stop me from pressing A over and over until I win?
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: James on March 16, 2008, 05:22:08 AM
Somebody forgot how moves keep getting weaker if you spam them. XP
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 16, 2008, 11:48:05 AM
Somebody forgot how SuitCase makes jokes. XP
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Squiggles the Chao on March 16, 2008, 01:32:34 PM
5)Item - Metal Box, Mushrooms, Lightning Bolt - Changes in size change the size of projectiles and explosives, change your knockout capability and your ability to knock people out.  They turn the tide far too much.  The Metal Box isn't quite as bad but it still pretty much makes you immune to ringouts until it expires.

I actually like the mushrooms and the lightning. There's always a chance that it could backfire on you.

6)Item - Hearts - The amount of time it takes to rack up 100 damage is enough to say this is pretty unfair.

Item - Home Run Bat - Definitely weaker than its Melee counterpart.  No way you'll ever home run ANYONE with this bat.

I've actually gotten a couple of home runs over WiFi with the bat. I still like it though.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Seph on March 16, 2008, 03:33:59 PM
I want to be in. No time to actually barter rules ATM.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Keith Stack on March 16, 2008, 04:03:13 PM
Daww, I don't wanna play a tourneyment where items are turned off. :[

*whine*
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: drak on March 16, 2008, 04:16:21 PM
Well, I'm not suggesting that ALL items be turned off - for instance, a lot of the items Neo suggested will probably stay on, because while some of them do upset game balance, that's... that's what they're for. UPSETTING THE BALANCE. There's nothing on the line in this tournament, no prize or anything, it'd just be a for fun thing... D: but I did wanna get rid of some of the items that most people agree should be turned off, which so far seems to be, like, superstars, healing items, and final smashes.
We can have a super-serious NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION tournament some other time.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Bartman3010 on March 16, 2008, 08:01:26 PM
In some cases I've been able to dodge people with hammers, and even been able to knock people out of the ring, sucks to be the hammer man! Because theres no way to jump in the air or do anything...except hammer your way to death.

Also, several items have stupidly random effects. Some bombs wont explode, lightning may shrink the person who touches it. Hammer heads fall off, clocks slow everybody down and of course, your character falls flat on his/her face.

Smash Bros is so unfriendly to tournament play that you may as well as jump off the ring.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Kiddo Cabbusses on March 16, 2008, 08:09:13 PM
I'll see if I or my little bro can be in if anyone cares.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: ila on March 16, 2008, 10:41:29 PM
I say all items on low. I don't feel like trying to argue with invalid points.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: noeko on March 16, 2008, 11:36:21 PM
Yeah I'm not saying ALL ITEMS NEED OFF OR THE TOURNAMENT IS SHIT AND NEEDS TO BE RAPED BY THE WORLD, I'm just trying to present an argument for why those items are bad.  I'm fine with anything being on or off, I'll still play.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Chrispy on March 17, 2008, 05:08:15 AM
In some cases I've been able to dodge people with hammers, and even been able to knock people out of the ring, sucks to be the hammer man! Because theres no way to jump in the air or do anything...except hammer your way to death.

Marth can counter the golden/hammer.

I do that all the time. I even warn people, yet they still come after me.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Kyoma on March 17, 2008, 07:41:15 AM
I'm only playing if every item is set to off except smoke balls and Mr. Saturns which will be set to high.
SATURN RAAAAAAVE. *Bitchin' guitar chord*
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Nik Jam on March 17, 2008, 11:32:21 AM
If it's on a weekend I can do it.

I hope I'm not going to lag too much though.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 17, 2008, 03:56:55 PM
You'll lag no more than me, Nik :<
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Donnyku on March 17, 2008, 03:57:26 PM
or me
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SpadeRunner|Faker on March 17, 2008, 04:33:10 PM
and lots less than me hopefully ;3
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Jessica HawlSera on March 17, 2008, 07:33:09 PM
I'll use my monstah, ROB, to clobber that there Joshi!
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Sparkle Tits on March 17, 2008, 08:05:38 PM
I'll lose pitifully to the first person I fight!

Fixed.

It won't be me, anyway, because you're gonna be the final boss and there's no way I'm making it to the finals.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Donnyku on April 01, 2008, 02:53:24 AM
So I guess the tourney is canceled? =P
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SonKnuck on April 01, 2008, 11:10:15 PM
:(
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SpadeRunner|Faker on April 02, 2008, 12:57:01 PM
Not so much cancelled more so, never really started, Drak said he wasn't going to be the one to instigate it, just casually mention its possibility, all it needs is someone to take charge~
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: brainduster on April 02, 2008, 09:36:17 PM
I would like to tourney.

Smash Balls or whatever the flock is for final smashink time should be turned off if we're trying to go for a semblance of minor balance, given that some people (Wario) get to have fun and others (Donkey Kong) get to be mediocre.

As a note, pretty much all the characters I play as have fun/rad/kickin' rad/bitchin'/awesome final smashes, so this is no tricycline whining.  This is SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I'm assuming weekends are primo for lagbrawltourney time.  Which weekend is optimal?  Are we going for doing the whole damn thing in one sitting?  How many folkses per match?  What about third party voicechat?  The game is lost for me if I can't foppishly eke out "I'm maaarioooo" to people playing Mario.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Artwood on April 02, 2008, 10:58:27 PM
I don't know if a lot of people realize that they actually have to hit the attack buttons in time with the beat when they use DK's Final Smash. Of course that's gonna be tricky online anyway, what with lag and such. BUT YOU KNOW
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: brainduster on April 02, 2008, 11:08:21 PM
I know that, I just don't know exactly what it means.  Which beat?  Which buttons?
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SonKnuck on April 02, 2008, 11:17:57 PM
Bongo Beat. Attack button.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Nik Jam on April 04, 2008, 10:20:08 AM
I don't think Tournament is online though, how is this going to be done?
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: brainduster on April 04, 2008, 10:28:05 AM
The tournament half will be manually done, the fightin' will be done via lagbrawl, I'd assume.

My vote for system is going for 3 stock matches, 3 rounds per match, 2 of 3 round wins = victory, to allow for nodumbluck.package
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Donnyku on April 04, 2008, 01:17:03 PM
I am fine with that setup, but you can always get tripple dumbluck ;P
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: drak on April 04, 2008, 04:19:50 PM
Ooh Stik, I like that setup :[ ] VAR VAR GOOD2U. Then if you lose the first one, you can get that awesome feeling of courage boiling deep within you and launch forth for the victory!!
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: brainduster on April 05, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
Ooh Stik, I like that setup :[ ] VAR VAR GOOD2U. Then if you lose the first one, you can get that awesome feeling of courage boiling deep within you and launch forth for the victory!!

Exactly!

So did we ever really reach a conclusion as to which items and stages we didn't want?

Final Smashes should be out, as should Assist Trophies and Poke Balls. . . Star Mans, Golden Hammers maybe, the Dragoon. . .

I vote strongly against 75m and Mario Bros, and despite how much I loaf the WarioWare stage it should be out for some obvious reasons, such as "it gives you invincibility sometimes, which is an item that ought to be out".
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: noeko on April 05, 2008, 10:04:52 PM
Also when someone else gets invincibility and you get "not invincibility' even if you both won.  That part sucks.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: brainduster on April 06, 2008, 03:20:57 AM
What's better is when one person gets invincibility and you get giantism.  Good job on doing the minigame, now you're easier to hit!
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Gold on April 13, 2008, 06:23:22 PM
Oh I think I would like to participate in a tourney.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: James on April 13, 2008, 06:26:44 PM
Depends on the date.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: brainduster on April 14, 2008, 05:21:20 PM
For the most boring item setup, but ostensibly the most fair would be nothin' but food and sandbags.  I'm fine with items, really, but ATs, FSes and Pokeballs are too dumb-luck or unbalanced and therefore are a great hazard to fairosity and others are a bit powerful.  Hitting people over and over with a beam sword from across the stage certainly makes me beam with delight (BOFFO) but that makes the whole thing more about "who gets the weapon first" and less "who's better at playing their character".

Stages being b&: WurrioWoar, 75m, Marryoh Brahs, Spore Puller, Part Time: Euro Dry, Hayroll Tingle, Nude Mork Mindy, RUMBLE FALLS, FL@ ZOHN DEUX.

FEEL FREE TO ARGUE LIKE A MINCING FAT.  Who wants to tourney, anyway?  Let's get some "yea lol i want 2" and ":)" all up ins, here.
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: Artwood on April 20, 2008, 12:45:02 AM
...so yeah when is this happening
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SonKnuck on April 20, 2008, 03:16:24 AM
With so many people wanting so many different rules... I think it'd be hard for it to happen since not everyone would be pleased.

So even though I'd love a brawl tournament, I have a feeling it won't ever happen :(
Title: Re: So hey, tournament?
Post by: SpadeRunner|Faker on April 20, 2008, 07:53:41 AM
Personally I don't care about the rules, it's not like theirs some massive super prize at the end, so lets all just get along and have fun :<